Curse

Thomasuwoo · Aug 07, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Right just in case Anet is thinking of nerfing rangers any more i'm posting this thread for all of you out there who can't beat the spirt spamming teams.

There are many ways to beat these teams and i'm going to outline the most devasating counters. the great thing about fad builds like this is that they have HUGE glass jaws and once you disable thier one tricky stratagey they're history.

Some quick pointers first. Most of these teams use healing spirng to stay alive. You need only to hit a ranger trying this to stop them. Some good counters are earthquake, meteor shower, cry of frustration and barrage.

The problem with this is that they usualy have zepyr making energy very difficult to manage. Keep this in mind as they will help imensly as supporting not only this team but many otehrs (Especialy King of the Hill battles)

Time to break out the big guns. Here is a build that should make beating these teams a breeze. keep in mind they both need some support but when you're facing 8 enimies and alot of spirts that's to be expected.

The warrior Build.
Fist up these groups are going to be clustered making this an axe warriors dream. Fisrt point of call is going to be stop them springs. While cyclone axe seems like all you'll need for this most rangers will be using whirling defesne. So bring Warriors Cunning OR Distracting blow. If you don't have a necro giving you energy Distracting blow is probably the better choice.
Now for each target you hit you're getting one adrenaline. With all these spirts it makes getting ANY adrenaline pumped up easy. Now it's time to hit these guys where it hurts. Use fear me. And then do it again. Really let them have it. They'll all be a zero energy in no time. No energy no spirts. With this and ur constant attacks there's goign to be no more backup spirts.
Bring dismember. Call when you use it. Have a fredly mesmer use epeademic. Now EVERYthign there (Spirts included) have deep wound. now use the Elite "Victory is Mine" Full HP and Energy. Now do it again.

While this is happening have a Fire ele (Who brought Mind burn) Use it in conjunction with the deep wound. This will burn them for around 7 secconds. Also adding EVEN more energy to Victory is Mine (Not that it won't be max already.) Not to mention COLLOSAL Dmg.

YouCOULD bring edge of extintion to wipe the spirts too but be awear that all this degen may wipe them all out at once and the chain reaction might be enough to wipe out both teams.

Go give them campers what for guys.

Phades · Aug 07, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Attacking a ranger with elementalist means is not the best approach due to their innate defense. Also, hitting them with knockdown is not always a guarentee as things like dolyak sig exist, in addition to spellbreaker as a overarching means to stop the spell knockdown (assuming they arent stupid enough to hug the spirit they just laid down) and things like stances, throw dirt, and other warrior counters from other sources to stop the warrior means of disruption.

Ranger energy management is far greater than many other forms, especially without the reliance of long term enchantments. They are combining low energy cost with cost reduction, when combined with the innate regeneration possible, this makes stopping the low cost of spirits problematic. One fear me warrior isnt enough, but building multiples can work, but doesnt help if they opt to spread out or if your warrirors are unable to build up adrenalin reliably and quickly. Zealous upgrades with aoe attacks help the warrior in clustered situations for energy, but can be hampered by relying on the auto hit skills over time. Many spirits do not have to be spammed in order for them to be effective and they also do not have to come from one source.

Any bad team can be beat, but good teams using spirits can overcome most anything thrown at them when they are not required to be in an offensive position.

FiveDisgruntledMonkeys · Aug 07, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Bring dismember. Call when you use it. Have a fredly mesmer use epeademic. Now EVERYthign there (Spirts included) have deep wound. now use the Elite "Victory is Mine" Full HP and Energy. Now do it again.
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Spirits aren't effected by hexes, enchantments, or conditions.

ComMan · Aug 07, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiveDisgruntledMonkeys

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Spirits aren't effected by hexes, enchantments, or conditions.

You are correct.

Tellani Artini · Aug 07, 2005, 09:33 PM // 21:33

So we should use strength+tactics axe warriors, fire eles, and epidemic mesmers. Got it. How well do you suppose it'll work against teams that don't ball?

Something must be wrong with me, I've only seen two healing balls in tombs and both were defeated on burial mounds. One without much trouble as a smiting PuG. The other took a while; we were playing as the classic KCHS spirit team.

BigTru · Aug 07, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Yep, spirits aren't effected by conditions, hexes, or enchantments. Bring anything other than an Earth Elementalist to a Ranger fight is a bad idea (luckily earth IGNORES defence). If you aren't running any conditions, Crystal Wave can be very nasty for any team.

Zeru · Aug 07, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

If you want to stop a healing ball team use a fear me warrior or two. Sympathetic Visage is not common enough and as long as you have ok hex removal soothing won't prove a problem. They can't do anything when they are locked at zero energy and all bunched up. The only issue is wards/aegis/guardian, especially ward v melee. Being able to shut that person down is key as well.

I don't think Ranger healing spring setups are all that great. In a mix group today we ran 4 monk healing ball with constant wards and some shouts from our wars and were functionally unkillable 1v1 without very heavy edenial. Not as powerful as the seed/bond setup but still very good at altar holding. Alas, we got a relic map every run we did

Desecration Station · Aug 08, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

for some reason i doubt you've actually used that against an effective spirit team.

Warriors? The most severe cases of heal balling will have the rangers secured inside a cluster of spirits. The warrior won't even get to anyone but a spirit (which has 240+ hp from fertile and is also being healed by heal spring.

Constantly 0 energy? Plz between greater conflag, winter, and mantra of frost.. every time you hit them they're gaining energy (and taking minimal damage at that).

AOE spells are a good counter, but you people again are taking for granted that the rangers won't be doing anything but spamming spirits and heal spring.

I want to see you try getting off a 3 second spell on rangers that pack distracting shot.

ComMan · Aug 08, 2005, 01:29 AM // 01:29

The healing ball is iffy. You can stop the Rangers from using Healing Spring if you bring one guy with Barrage, but for any other circumstance there's no reason to waste your elite slot on that skill.

I still think Spirit teams are overrated, although this griefing trend is a problem.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 08, 2005, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Not effected by condistions? I swear I've seen them on fire many times. And in any case the Heal from the rangers in the ball from Victory is mine was a full heal for me too. YEs I HAVE used this build And Yes it DOES work. Why don't you give it a try before you critasise it?
The ele spells i mentioned were for knockdown NOT dmg. Mind Burn is a condition, so natuers won't remove it. When combined with Deep wound hurts even more.
I mentioned 2 characters to counter a team of 8. What do you think the other 6 are doing? Sitting back doing nothing?
Smites will work on the rangers. Yes it can be removed with natures but distracting blow should be stopping that. And you'll have the smite for 6 secconds average which is still a fair bit of dmg.
Yes Dolyak signet and balance stance exist. Distracting blow will still stop this. By the way Dolyak is str based with a recast of 20 (10 with zephr) and only lasts 8 secconds.
BTW with Cyclone axe will be ready Every 2 secconds with zpehry up. So that's a fear me every 2 seconds. Ranger regen is NOT going to beat that. Hell no regen is going to beat that. Either get the hell out of there or fight with no energy. Mursatt towers have nothing on this.
Victory is mine will be ready every 7.5 secconds witch should mean full energy and hp. I doubt the rangr team can kill you that fast, espeacialy with the rest of your team supporting you. If they can you're not doing something right. Also ur axe warrior doesn't have to be a primary warrior. Can be a ranger war. Makes energy even more expendable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

So we should use strength+tactics axe warriors, fire eles, and epidemic mesmers. Got it. How well do you suppose it'll work against teams that don't ball?

Let me think you have a war that can drain energy at a good rate in group, and you have a Ele/mesmer or Mesmer/Ele with 6 free slots. How is that restrictive? I mean who uses ele mesmers right? that's such a useless combination right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desecration Station

Constantly 0 energy? Plz between greater conflag, winter, and mantra of frost.. every time you hit them they're gaining energy (and taking minimal damage at that).

Then kill the greater conflag! They can't spam that, It's elite. Ur fire dmg will imrpove (Meteor shower is nice for kd too)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desecration Station

AOE spells are a good counter, but you people again are taking for granted that the rangers won't be doing anything but spamming spirits and heal spring.

How are they killing you then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desecration Station

I want to see you try getting off a 3 second spell on rangers that pack distracting shot.

What's stopping you from blocking that? It'll stop the oath shot to. Useing mantra of concentration, glyph of sacrifice or Glyph of concentration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

The healing ball is iffy. You can stop the Rangers from using Healing Spring if you bring one guy with Barrage, but for any other circumstance there's no reason to waste your elite slot on that skill.

Barrage is a great skill. With a ranger war it equal alot of adrenalin fast, And it deal decent dmg to. When used with a horn bow and sundering bow string it doaes alot of dmg. Works nice with conjure spells too. Also great for ward teams.

Back on the track here. I gave 2 characters with plenty of room for customisation and you still think it's too hard to counter a spirt team?
Rember edge will wipe spirts. Even if you can't kill them their natural expirey time will wipe them out. Just be warned it can kill you as much as them.

Zeru · Aug 08, 2005, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desecration Station

for some reason i doubt you've actually used that against an effective spirit team.

Warriors? The most severe cases of heal balling will have the rangers secured inside a cluster of spirits. The warrior won't even get to anyone but a spirit (which has 240+ hp from fertile and is also being healed by heal spring.

Constantly 0 energy? Plz between greater conflag, winter, and mantra of frost.. every time you hit them they're gaining energy (and taking minimal damage at that).

For some reason I doubt you have any idea what you're talking about.

For one, you don't have to hit a ranger to gain adren; fear me affects the range of a ward roughly. There's a) the hero and b) spirits. Spamming spirits actually helps the warrior because you gain tons of adren/energy with cyclone axe/fgj and a zealous axe and you'll be firing off fear mes left and right.

Mitsu Bishi · Aug 08, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Then kill the greater conflag! They can't spam that, It's elite.

Actually they can, I've seen it. R/Me can take (and does take) Arcane Mimicry on an Oath Shot companion. Just to mention it

Thomasuwoo · Aug 08, 2005, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitsu Bishi

Actually they can, I've seen it. R/Me can take (and does take) Arcane Mimicry on an Oath Shot companion. Just to mention it

Time cosuming, Energy consuiming, Interuptable, Penty of ways to stop that. if u stop it once they can't try again for 60 secconds. And then you could just interput the conflag block the oath etc.

Timoz · Aug 08, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

YouCOULD bring edge of extintion to wipe the spirts too but be awear that all this degen may wipe them all out at once and the chain reaction might be enough to wipe out both teams.

Go give them campers what for guys.

I'm deciding not to comment on your counters, just wanna say about the whole chain reaction thing there. I saw 2 entire teams whiped out by a chain reaction yesterday which won my team the match after eoe was up and they tried to kill the spirits. Be careful if your gonna try and counter like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

So we should use strength+tactics axe warriors, fire eles, and epidemic mesmers. Got it. How well do you suppose it'll work against teams that don't ball?

Something must be wrong with me, I've only seen two healing balls in tombs and both were defeated on burial mounds. One without much trouble as a smiting PuG. The other took a while; we were playing as the classic KCHS spirit team.

Don't underestimate ranger healing ball teams.

Nazzarus Stormfall · Aug 08, 2005, 09:10 AM // 09:10

I run a spiker group that regularly beats a spirit ball, i just bring some fire to disrupt and wala, no more problems.. my biggest issue is in the smite/spirit groups.. THOSE are evil!!

Schorny · Aug 08, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Not effected by condistions? I swear I've seen them on fire many times.

They are not affected by conditions. You can set them on fire and watch them burn but it does not hurt them.

Quote:

Either get the hell out of there or fight with no energy. Mursatt towers have nothing on this.

Mhm... Last time I fought a good ranger team they spread out. If they are dumb enough to stick so close together, they can't be that good...

Quote:

Victory is mine will be ready every 7.5 secconds witch should mean full energy and hp. I doubt the rangr team can kill you that fast, espeacialy with the rest of your team supporting you.

You will need good condition removal for this. and with QZ up, this will hurt. Or you have martyr - then conditions are no problem.

Quote:

Then kill the greater conflag! They can't spam that, It's elite. Ur fire dmg will imrpove (Meteor shower is nice for kd too)

just pray that they didn't bring Ward Against Harm, right?

Quote:

How are they killing you then?

yeah, they will stick together and watch you doing your stuff and just keep spamming spirits... right, that's what they will do.

your problem is: you are fixed on the rangers staying together and not spread out. if they stick close together, you can defeat them easily - no doubt here. but what do you do when they spread out? Meteor, Fear Me, Barrage, Epidemic, Zyklon Axe,... are useless now. How do you handle that situation?

I'm not saying your strategy is bad, but you describe only how to defeat a dumb ranger team. And for defeating dumb teams I normally don't need that much of preparation...

Calnaion Blackhawk · Aug 08, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

well, from a rangers point of view, and i play in a very good ranger guild team, as im in that guild but thats not the matter, but none of the suggested ideas would take us down, the AOE spells yes, they are a pain but a *minor* problem every seems to think we use zephyr for the energy draining no.. read the FULL descritopn, the point about skill recharges

we dont use healing srping we usually take monk, healing spring bites and is the turdest skill and sits along with troll unduent

i wont say what takes us down because then everyone will wh0re the idea and another strategy will be wiped out, then everyone can do smiting, oh wait, everyone already does

cookiehoarder · Aug 08, 2005, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

So we should use strength+tactics axe warriors, fire eles, and epidemic mesmers. Got it. How well do you suppose it'll work against teams that don't ball?

Something must be wrong with me, I've only seen two healing balls in tombs and both were defeated on burial mounds. One without much trouble as a smiting PuG. The other took a while; we were playing as the classic KCHS spirit team.

They must have been running a pretty crappy heal ball.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 08, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote: